(Continued from previous post...)
A couple of my gal pals, who were with us on Saturday, used the word dandanakka (seemingly condescendingly) a couple of times to refer to the Tamil and Telugu songs that I mentioned earlier. I don't blame them. That's just their opinion. But then again, what is it that prevents us from putting quality music from the urban spreads of South India alongside what a fat 40 something (read Daler Mehendi) or a sure shot winner of the "Stevie Wonder" look alike contest in Vegas (Sukhbir, for all you young kids who are unsure about who Stevie Wonder is) dishes out from a studio in rural Rohtak or the ghettos in Southall?
Personal preferences do matter !
For me, the images (and the ease of the steps used) from a particular video are the catalysts to my liking the track. And some artistes seem to inspire me repeatedly. Deva (in particular his gaana songs) is one of my favorites. And being a Thalaivar fan, I put his intro songs in the same plane as Deva's gaana. I am known to do a mean impression of Thalaivar in his intro songs in Arunachalam and Baasha. Sequences choreographed by Raju Sundaram (and Prabhudeva to a certain extent) are also close to my heart (and my feet).
Does sex play a role ?
Most "footloose" guys that I know have no qualms in dancing to these songs. So is it just possible that the repulsive mental images (1) that Tamil and Telugu songs sometimes leave with ladies are preventing the adoption of these tracks when it comes to the dance floor?
Do lyrics / video choreography matter ?
A lot of us seem to relate such songs with outrageous lyrics. I am not sure, but I think the lyrics part is over rated. There are songs that fit this profile, for example, the outrageously worded Thunda Kanum, Thuniya Kanum, Thooki Paatha.. (all you Tamil speaking junta should thank god that I haven't gone ahead and given the whole line), but in actuality, most of these songs have very simple lyrics with colloquial language that everybody can understand. No more hunting for a Tamil dictionary to decipher what "attraith thingal annilavil netriththarala neervadiya kotrappoigai aadiyaval neeyaa" means. On the contrary, even someone like me, with just the rudimentary knowledge of pure Tamil can understand "Kandhan irukkum idam kandha thottam, enga annan irukkum idam Poes Thottam" and also can dance to it! And it seems to me that it is only those people who swear by Marshall Mathers, who raise their eyebrows at the likes of Thunda Kanum.
Go figure! As for choreography, again, it is very simple and sometimes such songs can involve intricate choreography to tell you things that you don't expect to see. For example, you can check out the video for Kathadikidhu Kathadikidhu (from Ninaivirrukum Varai). Just when you think you are seeing a dozen guys gyrating under the influence of IMFL (and water), you see a carefully choreographed depiction of the abduction of Seetha by Ravana, straight from the Ramayana! Now, if that's not poeticism, what is?
There could be one more possible reason for the bias. But it is perhaps the most touchy. Some people that I know claim that there is a distinct bias against everything South Indian. People claim that Hindi speaking Indians look down upon South Indians (as evidence they point to the typical "stupid South Indian" character made popular by the likes of Mehmood in Bollywood) and this has led to same bias against "Madrasi" tracks. While I think that some of this might be true, but it certainly does not seem to be the case completely. And that is because I know some people (as does CM) from Chennai and elsewhere in South India who that think anybody who professes a liking for Deva's gaana, are pariahs. So, the condescending attitude is not limited only to people from North India.
In the real world, can anything be attributed to one single reason? There is always more than one reason. Suderman has been talking about looking at this issue from the journalist's point of view and I am looking forward to seeing if he comes up with any angles.
But one thing is sure. There is a niche in the market for South Indian music that is virtually untouched - Remixes. I know the remix industry thrives on Bhangra and Hindi tracks (from the 60s, 70s and the 80s). Would remixing some South Indian tracks would help to give them a more international flavor, like the infusion of reggae and rap interludes in Punjabi tracks has done?But it needs two things - A DJ who loves "dandanaka" music (and thinks he can do something positive with it) and an adventurous music company with money to burn. Mebbe the time's not far away when both these things happen. I certainly am waiting for the day that I shall listen to Deva crooning Whitu Lagaan Kozhi with techno beats accompanying it.
My advice to everyone is - forget the language, forget the lyrics, channel your concentration on to the accompanying beats and I am sure you will wanna start moving your legs. Though my father might not approve of such songs, he would not approve of Snoop "Doggy" Dee Ohh Double G either. So if you wanna say that Deva churns out offensive songs, think twice when you sing along with Eminem. And if you think you'd like to dance to Usher's Yeah (Hell yeah, Usher rocks!), try dancing to Thottu Thottu Pesum Sultana. I am sure you will have the same fun. And ya, before you start, you might wanna take some lessons on moving to such songs. But, don't worry. It's not too much trouble. I'd enjoy teaching you (particularly if you are a lady). So do you think you are upto it? Tell me when you are.
And when you are ready, I hope to start hearing more and more of these songs played by DJs.
Till such time, I will be content watching Simran grind and roll her hips in tune to Aal Thotta Bhoopathi. I am not complaining at all. And neither will you, once you get to watch the video. And that is partly why I go to temples once in a while, to thank Him for his divine deeds.
(Concluded)
[1] For example, the midriff barring costume of Simran in Aatakavala and the gyrations from Chaaya Singh / Dhanush in Manmadha Raasa
26 comments:
Hey aNTi,
Nice read da.. Mostly all our favourites in Cinema are jus the same da...
keep writing !!!
Cheers,
Avinash
LOL! You really love your music and do you analyze it to death or what!!! Tamil/Telugu remixes! It's difficult enough talking Tamil at a regular pace (I try), imagine rap in Tamil! :)
Nice, keep writing!
wow...you do analyse stuff a lot. care to be our DJ next time we throw a party in Chicago. No dandanakka songs please... I'll translate the hindi lyrics for you...personal translator.
But seriously, our group has some Tamil song fanatics who'll love you.
When did you move from Cleaveland? Time flies!
How can you be in Peoria/Chicago area? Somewhere midway in the cornfields? Sollu da...yaarukku sollamaaten!
-alpha
Alpha: Seriously, I was never in Cleveland.. Unless you are confusing Cleveland with a small university town at the completely opposite end of Ohio, called Athens! lol...
I gotta update this page. I spent most of my weekends in the last 6 months in Chicago and the weeks in Peoria! I moved to Delware a couple of weeks ago.
One more thing, I promise never to type in Hinglish. It takes me 10 mins to frame a single sentence. One day, I should tell you about this Hindi essay competition I took part in, or was it a Tamil essay competition. Anyways, that story's for another day. Pass on my regards to Pi ;)
Gabby: Thanks for the comment! Ya, I do analyse my music, sometimes way too much. But my knowledge is limited to singing off key and nothing more ;). But u know what, an idle mind is a devil's workshop and I do have a fair bit of idle time at the moment.
tell tell about hindi essay..it has lot of potential for me to make fun of you.: Pi says Hi Anti!
-alpha
Dei,
You are comparing something that is stupid(Manmadha Raaasa..) to something thats more stupid(Snoop dog). The latter became more popular coz of the afro-americans, who dont know anything beyond dance clubs and sex. The main focus of these songs is to have a hip shaking/ hip rolling beat for doing the obvious things in the dance floor. There are very few people who go to the dance floor in US just for dancing(from what Ive seen atleast). Its more for grinding and everything after that.
Manmadha raasa just has a goot tapping beat to it. Everything else about ths song is bad. And encouraging such songs with bad lyrics and dance movements is not good atall.
There was a program in Sun TV on Tamil new years day called "Pattu padum paadu". They played songs like Podaango, Manmadha Raasa, Aey, Kaiya vaechukunnu summa iru da and a lot other thathuva paadals like these :)
If you want some kind of recognition, pick better songs:). As I mentioned to you, its like showing Ganguly's leg side game and saying Indians are very good in cricket.
-Prabhu
Alpha: Yaa.. Ya.. Ya...I am the neighborhood joker :p Lol...Its a good story. Would consider posting. But the fact is, i'd probably get more "lol's" in the comments that the actual number of words on the post and the joke would be on me. Which is the major concern, since it might destroy the carefully built up "Intelligent dark and handsome guy" image among my silent female readers who haven't seen me. I wouldn't want that, being undeservingly single!
Prabhu: The thing is, I am not gonna be encouraging the song. This song has great potential in bringing non-Tams to the dance floor, when they see the fun that ppl like me and Selva have when they play the song (like Sid and Abhijeet picked up Appadi Podu after all that Sun TV viewing). Once a trend has been set, I will gladly make an appeal on this blog to ask them to stop playing such song which offend ppl like you ;) Podhuma.. Nammaku ennada... Ellarum nalla irrukanum.. It is for the greater common good of the dance loving folk of the world....Howww iiiis iiiiiit? (Soooooper!)
The latter became more popular coz of the afro-americans, who dont know anything beyond dance clubs and sex.
Congratulations to the first desi member of the KKK.
*opens his eyes in surprise as he realises what the implications of both comments are and wonders what to do!
hey
nice article. raises some pertinent questions on a rather frivolous topic!
just a few thoughts...
why isn't gaana as liked as the bhangra (by north indians and/or some 'elite', 'cool', 'hep' south indians?) even though both are equally foot tapping and focused on beats?
1. i think it has to do with the way its packaged ... the bhangra is well packaged, its more than the just a series of rather monotonous beats (and i'm sick of it) ...the video is shot slickly..and the music is mastered to sound good for dance parties and disco (sound technology? i m not a music person but listening to something i can say which sounds 'cooler'..i m sure ppl who dislike ghaanas also use some technique like that!)
2. Gaanas and other 'dandanaka' tamil music face two disadvantages: one was what i mentioned earlier..the north indians cant relate to the song in anyway...(a)they havent seen the video most likely and/or (b) they dont understand whats being sung (they may not understand punjabi either but atleast its in some way closer to hindi and they can kinda follow it ..thats the main reason why they even listen to it in the first place)
and tamil or telugu as a language is more 'karadumuradu' if i may use that term when compared to the rather smooth, easy to speak, roll of the tongue hindi/hindi-like languages...so on top of the use of rather harsh and loud sounding percussion instruments in these 'koothu' songs (its not the same in bhangra i think its a bit milder), the average n.indian finds the words also a bit loud and crass (!)...(thats what they make fun in hindi movies, dont they?)
we hv had weekend parties where we gather as a group to dance and have fun..and this what i think is the reason why n.indians generally tend to stop dancing when the song is changed from bangra to gaana...they cant relate to it..and its a pity that although NI's call us parochial etc its just that they are equally/if not more resistant to new ideas/music!
to be fair, i've also seen NI's really enjoying and dancing to some tamil songs, for eg from boys..mainly becos they liked the cooly shot videos and they liked the music which has a wider appeal..
the gaana is never gonna work out unless its packaged well...if u want it to reach it to a wider audience u need someone who can rework it to suit everyone's taste..like rahman maybe...'pop'ify it..
varun.
ps:as for why ordinary south indians like us enjoy both bhangra and gaana i will keep it for some other time ;) the answer is somwhr in what i wrote..
btw,i dont dance to either music cos i get two frozen left feet..so i m jus a silent spectator! haha!
as for what i like...too much of both is tiring ..
as far as music goes, SI's are definitely more open to all genres of music vis a vis the average NI..the proof lies in the film music itself! othrws we r no liberals!
Avi: Thanks machi.. keep coming back! And I think I will make a separate roll for OIs....
Gabby: So what do you speak at home? ASL? And the Tamil rap genre is what we call "Gaana", but it has also grown to include anything with sung with jakass beats and a totally untrained voice, such as mine!
Alpha: Will gladly be the DJ and will surely lose all the CDs other than the ones with the "dandanaka" songs. Fyi, we had once such incidence of the DJ losing a CD with such songs that me and a friend painstakingly compiled before the annual Diwali dance party at univ. And he found them mysteriously after the party had broken up after midnight. The a******e! Btw, are you confusing me with Drew Carey? He's the one from Cleveland!
Pirabu: Namma idha paathi totalla ph la discuss pannitom. Ippo apeet aayikiren! And oru potential bomb onnu pottuta.. But whats ur definition of "better songs"? What i am saying, we shld start with anythign that is available and once we set the tone, start editting the songs. This is comparable to shooting 4 hrs of footage and packaging it into a 2.5 hr long thalaivar padam!
Dev: umm.. uhhh.. hmmm (* chokes when he tries to say something)
Varun: Totally agree with the fact that gaana needs to be packaged, but that was my point. That it needs to be packaged! Ppl who are exposed to Tamil/Telugu have issues with these songs mainly cos of the lyrics and the choreo.
But what i am saying is that, all it needs is repeated playing. Cos then it will grow on you. And if that (DJs playing these songs) does not happen in Chennai, there is no way its gonna permeate to the rest of the country! Lets start with everything in Chennai/Hyderabad and then root out the "evil" songs and play the rest in the other parts of the country. Any takers? I am sure there will be, once "Kandhan irukkum idam kandha thottam" becomes the rage!
Btw I am comparing only Bhangra with Gaana. Cos the ppl who grind to Snoop definite can't jive to Deva immediately. Its the Bhangra crowd that has the best potential!
Thanks boss, for making this the post with the single longest comment! I really mean it. Pls do visit again and leave your comments!
I can't really agree to what varun has said.
The reason why Bangra is excepted and gaana isn't simply boils down to one reason - the Punjabs are proud of their Bangra - Have you seen the roots of Bangra with their colourful costumes. Right up from then till now they have stood up to their music. That is why they have spent years trying to spread the music globally, and now they have successfully done it.
Southies on the other hand are too good for their folksongs - they're embarrassed about it - you hear phrases like Gana? I hate that music man.
So how can the music be recognised if its owners hate it???
Have you heard African music, it hasn't been repackaged, even reggae is not repackaged, they still show you a pot smoking brother or a tribes man bogeying to his music. Why it is recognised, they love their music and are proud of it!
The cool factor can only emerge if its native feel its cool.
There is nothing harsh sounding in Tamil - Tamil is one of the sweetest languages. The Nis are proud of their language, are the Tn's proud of Tamil? Most urban Tamils in Chennai find speaking in Tamil embarrassing. Your hospitality industry speaks only English and will reply in English even if you speak in Tamil. So what will the outsider think. They themselves find it disgusting how can we embrace it???
Lyrics - 95 percent of songs that come out from the Tamil industry is vulgar including the melodies
Only difference one uses spoken Tamil and is direct to the point the other uses sen thamil where everything is hidden under double meanings
It continues to bewilder us why Southies in India are embarrassed by something so close to them - their language and Gana.
You know what kind of songs come out from Malaysian Indians? Rock Gaana. Though most of them are off Shruthi, the industry is growing and improving and we are proud to be identified by it. So the only way Gana can be recognised is when its people embraces it!
Completely agree Visithra.. I think I have heard a couple of Tamil songs from Malay Tamils.. been a long time ago... Acceptance among Tamilians is the only thing thats gonna push Gaana into dance floors...
I wanted to incl. this anecdote in the main post, but somehow it slipped my mind. There were these two marathi guys who used to watch cricket with us in Univ. We used to watch cricket at Prabhu's (who's commented above) home and during the Indo-Pak series last yr, we used to change channels to Sun TV during the breaks and between overs and since it was usually late night the only programmes used to be trailers and song shows. And that was the time Gilli's trailers were on.. Then somedays later, i walk into my lab to see it almost empty with just these two marathi guys. And they were playing and singing along to....Appadi Podu Podu! I fell down laughing. So some songs just grow on you and that song is like that!
Vishitra/anti:
I am not gonna disagree really with what u say. Your basic point is pride! big words indeed!
so u think if we are proud enough about our language people will accept our music? Honestly speaking its not that i am not proud abt gaana or I am unappreciative of it...! I was just trying to talk about this whole thing from an outsiders perspective. You, as an insider can go ga-ga about your music, can explain to an NI about the beauties of a gaana, but the fact is he/she has to be open to what u say and he/she shd like what she hears! otherwise its just lk speakign to a wall...he/she is gonna brand u a fanatic..
yes, somebody has to 'pop'ify it...dilute the core gaana content, add extra elements to it and make it reach a wider audience .. its nothing abt pride, the guys who did it for bhangra must hv sensed a business opportunity , and slowly it became popular it was not done overnight and it was certainly NOT done only due to pride...only listeners like us talk abt pride and how cool it is...the guy popularizes is just using it..
frankly speaking how many were tuning in to gaana songs b4 it was popularized thru films? the guys who sings it in its original/undiluted/hardcore form are still languishing in the slums...you and I enjoy gaana becos its been given a mass appeal by deva and co by adding other elments to it...go ask the guy in the slums hes gonna hit out at deva for diluting it ( i rem reading an article abt the original gaana composers in outlook)..someone will some time take it to the next step from deva..from a greater tamil audience to a greater indian audience...but make no mistake...its not just pride..! its not even the starting point ... because if u r really proud abt something u will never compromise it just to make it popular! popularity has the word commercial/money-making hidden in it...
its the same way in bhangra i m sure ... the guys who are masters of it and who are PROUD of it are still unknown beyond the borders of punjab .. sometimes u get to catch a glimpse of them in punjabi tv channels...and their songs are untouched by commercialization/compromises...in its raw form...ppl who think they know and like bhaangra as seen/heard on MTV or discotheques will not think fo giving it a 2nd look..
isnt it a paradox? if u are proud of something and wanna popularize it u hv to compromize, but if u compromise are u really proud of it?
and ha, tamil is indeed a sweet language...only if it spoken the way it shd be! words like kuzhandai, azhagu , kaathal etc sound very sweet ...but the NI hears what u and I speak colloquially, he/she doesnt get to hear the sentamizh or pillai tamizh or whatever...so his/her idea of tamil is based on that...and dont u think we speak loud, karadumuradu (yei enna, mavane savadichuduven, rather harsh as compared to hindi...its relative i say! dont pick up issues with me on that) and what accentuates the harshness part of the language more than a gaana song he/she hears? now i m sure NI's dont hv issues with say 'chinna chinna aasai' from roja. its the beauty of tamil that there are different tones to it...harsh, sweet ...tamil is multidimensional..hindi?maybe not as much...NI's are not gonna analyze that...what u hear is what u get!
(and am not saying daler is not proud of bhangra..its more of business acumen than pride..we need someone like that for gaana as well , who doesnt see it thru the prism of tamil/culture/pride)
varun
ps: haha , anti , i guess i beat my own record for the longest comment!
Varun
See anti made a point there - because he n his friends enjoyed the Gili song, his 2 marathi friends embraced it as well. Imagine if one of Anti's friend had exclaimed how can you listen to this crap? Do you think the Marathi guys would have wanted to listen to it again??
Its quite simple only if you love something can you make another person who does not identify with it to like it.
Varun you might like it but on an overall the majority who do not like it in India is bigger - so that negatifies the impact of the acceptance. You need tonnes of positive vibes to make something work but just 1 negative view can spoil the whole thing.
You can't make someone enjoy something if the majority of its natives do not exclaim the same enjoyment.
You seriously need to come down to Malaysia, I'll show you westerners and chinamen who dance to gana. So answer me why is it excepted here?
When you see everyone of the community enjoying it, you're gonna enjoy it as well coz you don't want to be left out. That's what popular music is about.
Popufied Bangra has been prevalent only in the last 10 years - its just spreading its wings around the world now. Without the push from its own people (that pride of playing it at every event that people start taking notice) it wouldn't have come up.
Ure right in one sense the right person has to make it popular. If rahman worked a gana song, the NI's would accept it. And he has done before - remember Pettai Rap.
How do you think Prabu Deva is accepted there? Sorry to say but in India, you need a western guy to take notice before the general public would recognise local talent.
You don't need to get NI's approval - introduce it to your western friends and spread it that way before you know it the local NI would be listening to it.
I might sound like a bigot here, but on a general basis most NI's look down on SI's. Getting their approval is akin to getting Musharef to come to a decision on Kashmir. Thankfully we generally don't have snobish NI's here, south or north the Malaysian Gov recognises you as an Indian - period.
You've gone way off what the post was about, we're not talking about the compromising factor, that would be an entirely different subject that would extend into different genres.
The question was why it isn't accepted by its own people when another native music can be accepted globally.
i guess what i said was not understood clearly.
i m not gonna rephrase it..please re-read it..i hv the tendency to use a lot of words..sorry abt that..it might be easy for reader to lose my train of thought or pick up one small issue somewhere..
i was not off trajectory..i was giving my rebuttal to the issue of pride..
liking/loving something is NOT the same as being proud/having a sense of belonging to it..
Malysian gov may recognize every1 as indians..but u still go by NI and SI..(hindi guy and tamil guy )ur comments says that! so if the difference exists , it exists!
peace!
varun.
...and in fact, malaysian gov does not recognize all people as malaysians...u hv indians, malays, chinese...
so there u go...!
varun.
(this was certainly off the topic!)
i agree that gaana songs may be looked down upon because music like parai (eg. in movie 'Thendral') are associated with saavu melam and considered inauspicious... but one problem with most of the gaana songs, at least for me, is that their lyrics are meaningless (maybe it is part and parcel of a gaana song to not have meaningful lyrics, but i don't like to think so)... i would appreciate it more if the songs had decent lyrics...
Visitha: Let me thrown in a small curve ball here. I am still not sure whether everyone sitting there watching cricket enjoyed the song. I just think some enjoyed and the rest were either ambivalent or just keeping quiet. Whether all of us liked it or not is another question, but atleast we (knowingly or unknowingly) let the 2 non-Tams form their own opinion! And thats the path I wanna go, overall and i think thats mirroring your opinion as well.
Varun: I am talking NEITHER of overnight change nor about pride in my language. I am talking about pride in MY music! If u notice, I ask you to get to the zone and concentrate not on the lyrics (i.e. the language) or the choreo, but only on the beats! And inspite of having just passing knowledge of Telugu, I am reccommending atleast 2 telugu songs. So, my contention is not about the Tamil language. Ultimately, I need songs to dance to and songs, be it Telugu or Tamil or Hindi or Punjabi would suffice. It is just that wherever I go, I get to dance to the same songs that I thought some variety could help. And I sought this variety in the form of gaana! And if u think Hindi as you know it is sweeter than the Chennai Tamil, check out the Hindi spoken in the Old City areas of Hyderabad and Mumbai! So, Hindi is as multidimensional as any other language.
Kumaran: True, but again, I am prepared for anything if it means I'd get variety on the dance floor. Kamal had this line in some movie or the other, referring to jokes. Roughly translated to, the fun of a joke is in the laughter it generates, and not in the analysis of its punchline!
Similarly, if u wanna have mindless fun, dance to the song, but dont think too much about the technical aspects!
Anand: You've linked to a lot of my other favs. I just took the pick of my favs to incl. in these posts! And I have actually heard Kabhi Kabhi! A friend of mine thinks its hilarious too and used to keep singing it when I was in Chicago till about a month ago! Ya, Thottal Poo Malarum! How could i miss it? And as for DSP, have to check him out.. Sachein seems to have a couple of foot tappers! And I thought Ukkadathu was a sermon against "Love" ;) Again Anand, no one is sidelining or wants to sideline the "Peter" songs. I just need some variety!
And btw, I just realised that all the complaints that a lot of ppl have about gaana are just similar to the ones that my dad has/had about the same songs that these complaintants seem to enjoy. Not that I am saying that all you complaintants are old geezers, but just that opinions are opinions!
Speaking of Tamil Remix...Here is one that was brought to my attention by a friend of mine..I like it a lot.. Hope you like it too..
http://www.danceage.com/media/276-Black-Eyed-Peas-Elephunk.php
Choose the Song "The Elephunk Theme".
Come to you Blog thru Vinods Blog.
Anon: ya.. Elephunk theme... kinda old news.. but appreciate it in any case..
Btw.. do u have a name? :D
Anti,
Exactly giving them a chance by not inflicting predetermined views on them.
Told my friends about this they had only one thing to say - which I think aptly summarises it.
Ikkaraiku akkarai pachai. - The grass is much greener on the other side. :)))
In a way true! The grass is definitely greener on the other side, but in a way i am saying my grass is much more greener!
This discussion is turning on my creative juices and making me think each and everytime someone comments. This one came to me as I was re-reading ur's and Varun's comments.
I think the popularity of Bhangra came about because a lot of ppl from Punjab settled abroad in England/USA, but did not wanna lose their roots. I think something similar is happening in case of Tamil music in Malaysia and Singapore. Similarly there is a sizable Punjabi population in Chennai, with the Punjab Association running atleast half a dozen schools (incl. the ones that I studied through out). But while the Punjabis seem to have popularized their brand of music in the south, Tams seem to have not done something similar whereever they went in India...
Well that was what I was saying, not wanting to lose your roots is akin to pride as well. The thing is, Malaysias different from other indian communities around the world, its just like being in India. Thats the term my friend put when he came down over the weekend. You could easily be forgiven if you were to think this was some city in India.
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